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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Mon, July 11, 2005 - 11:58 PMAfter reading that essay. i got the impression that the author was out to discredit Einstein in the same fashion he accuses Einstein of doing to hold up his theory. he makes sweeping and "exacting statements" but they are making assumptions witch to me appear biased in their motivations.
Two points. one it should be easy now to retest the solar deflection of a star with todays technology thus confirming or rejecting Einstein's theory. this author does not mention any more current experiments .
second. all work of all science is done by building on the work of others Einstein readily admits this. some discoveries have happened at the same time in different parts of the world. and in Einstein's time communication was much less. his letters are what give us a glimpse into his thinking and "discoveries" also creating a new way to interpret data is science and is done all the time and can be quite useful.
i think using a strong word like plagiarism is in an attempt to demonize Einstein as a means to discredit him. something i find to be a sociopath trait. but i resist using such labels as they are defining unfairly an individuals potential in the negative. absolutes wall off learning.
so making such absolute claims to my mind ends the conversation and only reveal someone's agenda to be right. i still make no assumption that what was said in the article is untrue. i question the motive. truth should be the only motive and not an emotional reactionary personal attack bassed on some internal personal conflict.
Chaz -
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Wed, July 13, 2005 - 11:17 AMTruth be told I really didn't dig that article very much myself I just wanted to see what others thought of it. Here's the thing; if Einstein "plagiarized" ( a strong word..I agree) what makes him the genius is that he published. If others had the same ideas they could have published them and didn't, at least not so anyone would know that they did.
Still, I have to say, what you said:
".....not an emotional reactionary personal attack bassed on some internal personal conflict."
That's a pretty heady assumption, are you a psychologist or something?
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Wed, July 20, 2005 - 7:15 PMNo Tiff
i just grew up around a lot of wacky people. and so i started to examine peoples motivations. and studied a lot about psychology on my own.
I am extremely logical and i start asking questions when things don't add up. people seem to be motivated by emotional belief systems based on events in their past and discard reality when it suits them. its irritating!
I am an engineer and technician. mostly electronics. i play a bunch of instruments and write music sometimes.
no one really pays you much mind unless you have a certificate anyway.
so its just my opinions i guess.
Anyway what tips me off to it is how people use language. people that use extreme labels usually do it to change the way a person perceives an argument by using emotional charged language. and "character assassinations" it is done manipulatively in my opinion. but i guess we are all prone to "persuasive talk". its just when people try and "demonize" another as did the articles author i get suspect of the motivation.
Seems demonization is the fad of the century in these modern times.
Just look at todays politics.
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Fri, July 15, 2005 - 10:35 AMWhen we assess the great thinkers of the past...we must be careful not to judge the orginality and quality of their ideas and the work that they did to develop those ideas, based on assumptions and partial information. The author of this essay, Moody, has (according to his bio) a degree in geology and has written extensively on the subject of chess. However, his research is only based on approx. 4 years of effort and detailed investigation. Compared to the efforts of many of the great thinkers that he references AND the body of work that Albert Einstein contributed to our knowledge, this is a drop in the ocean. This does not imply though, that his viewpoint is entirely incorrect. Only somewhat limited, in the scope of how important these ideas are to the various fields of science that Einstein is popularily known for.
In a recently published book, "Einstein's Luck - The Truth Behind Some of the Greatest Scientific Discoveries", by John Waller, the background and details of how the Theory of General Relativity grew to be the accepted (as the entirely newest and most important theory of it's time) unfolds as a combination of hard work, thought provoking arguments and complete revisions in the former framework that was thought to be the foundation of the non-mechanistic viewpoint of the universe since Isaac Newton's intensive examinations of these same subjects.
Einstein's theory was only "confirmed" in 1919, because Sir Arthur Eddington massaged the figures for general relativity. Why Eddington did so, and the reasons for his support of Einstein's departure from previous models is considered to be the turning point in the development of science that led to our understanding of Atomic energy and all of the major advances of theoretical physics that have come about since then.
In regarding the importance of Einstein to the "culture" of science and theoretical physics, take into consideration that these are exceptionally difficult concepts to grasp. The history of human thought has rarely encountered such a superbly inventive and reason-defying concept as the general theory of relativity.
In regarding Einstein as a "plagiarist" of Poincare's ideas, the author of this article only examines the span of years between the publishing of the general theory and the 'proof' supplied by Eddington. He does not however, examine the additional material that became the underlying premiss of this whole viewpoint.
In another recently published work, "Einstein's Clocks, Poincare's Maps - Empires of Time" by Peter Galison (who is the Mallinckrodt Professor for the History of Science and of Physics at Harvard University) we learn about the fantastic meaning of DISTANT SIMULTANEITY. Einstein's Light Clock model gave the simplist explanation of time dilation by using 2 parallel mirrors with a pulse of light reflecting between them, each traverse of a 'tick' appearing to the observer at rest as a sawtooth wave.
A more generous view--than the viewpoint of Moody--of the importance of the work and life of Albert Einstein, would be that the very starting point of relativity theory consists of a new and very astonishing idea about the properties of time, namely the relativity of simultaneity. -
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Sat, July 16, 2005 - 9:38 PMI hear you Pablo, but I happen to think chessplayers have a different way of thinking about things.
Chess is basically a game played by calculating 8x8 tensor algebra. What Einstein did, in solving the Lorentz equation, was simply the same kind of analysis that any gifted chessplayer can do in his head. And, there are rumors that it wasn't Einstein who solved the equations, but actually his wife (which was why he gave her half his Nobel money).
Einstein was a charismatic and gifted man, and probably did plagiarize to some extent. Scholars know of Shakespeare as a plagiarist, as well, which doesn't make him any less great a writer.
Einstein also accumulated 50,000 pages of notes on the Unified Field Theory (which he never solved). He also abandoned the "cosmic constant" conjecture, which we know now to have been true (so his rejection of the idea of a "repulsive force" was an error).
Einstein was a man, not a myth, and his great achievements have been distorted and magnified to a large degree.
Moody is a skeptic, and a debunker, and he sounds very negative about Einstein. But, think of Einstein as though he were Aristotle.... Aristotle's views of physics (according to Galileo) held science back a thousand years.
Aristotle was very great for his time, but adhering to a dogma (any dogma) can be counterproductive to progress. Galileo saw that the truth was clearly being obscured by the Church's acceptance of Aristotle's ideas. In the same way, a blind faith in Einstein could actually be more harmful than good.
I really do get the sense that Moody has a bit of an axe to grind, but he does have certain reasons which are probably partly valid. -
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Wed, July 20, 2005 - 7:33 PMPablo and Nicholas.
you both make excelent points. and i do agrea!
It made me think of the making of the Oxford English Dictionary or QED
It was written by a professor and a madman who basically took words used in sharkspears writing and added them to the dictionary with Shakespeare interpretations condensed to the form we are now familiar. there were of course other sources. the authors solicited people to send in bits of information on any word they could and if enough correlating info came for a particular word it got excepted as a legitimate entry into the dictionary.
so was this "Plagerization" of Shakespeare? We build on discoveries of our past thinkers and artists and craftsmen.
Thats why the use of that word for Einstein smacks of personal vendetta
There is a great book called the Professor and the Madman i dont recall the author but it is a very interesting read. it talks about the making of the QED -
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smart guy!
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 9:54 PMI was actually quite impressed when in grad school we learned about Big Al's compressed notation for tensors.
Such an elegant shorthand, and not even the most ardent deconstructionist has been able to prop up any Poincarés, Minkowskis or Mileva Marics to steal his thunder here.
Mu nu all the way! -
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Re: smart guy!
Mon, August 29, 2005 - 10:22 AM(Restating what everyone seems to have stated. And you all seem insightful.) Facts and speculation can be leading but the motive of the writer can to be leading the reader in the direction the writer may want. When a reader can sense the writers opinion when it is mixed with facts and speculation and not in a possible conclussion red flags should go off. One flag is the possible omission of facts that may not support the writers opinion. Anyway interesting article and prespective. In away it is another case of What if....?
hat if....?
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Thu, December 1, 2005 - 4:56 AMI second the recommnedation on The Professor and the Madman.
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Re: Albert Einstein: Plagiarist of the century?
Thu, December 1, 2005 - 5:03 AMI wonder if Einsteen would think that he was only part of the work since it seems his work talks about everything being connected anyway.
The images I have of him is his devotion to the work, til his death, trying to solve a paradox and the energy he put into it. I heard a quote recently, maybe it was posted on this tribe of him saying how people are looking for ways to satisfy themselves when all they really want is to be really excited about what they do. It sounds like he was.